It took Nick Woerner 4 years of foot dragging, empty promises and the 'hope of government grants', (The Hinchey Connection), to go nowhere, while Only 6 months into his term as Supervisor, Quigley has put forth a nuts and bolts plan that actually has the potential of bringing our town into the 21st Century.
Even property owner Alan Ginsberg is on board with the proposal which might finally force IBM to expend some of the $27 million fund and clean up the toxic waste so long holding up any development.
Residents of the Town are reaping the rewards of their November 2009 decision to replace incompetence with efficiency. It is a shame that 4 years of a good economic landscape were lost in the hands of Mr. Woerner and while the economy might not be ripe for economic development, by the time the legal challenges are met and the site plan approved investment capital may once again be readily available.
Does any know what has become of Andy Zweben and Steve Aaron?
I usually agree with you and think you do a great job. However, I think a little more homework is in order for this post.
ReplyDeleteThe Town of Ulster has spent thousands of dollars over many years in court fighting the challenges of or defending the assessments of this property. That did not help Tech City prosper, in fact it was a major deterrent to Tech City's development efforts. This originates long before Woerner was in office. Jim Maloney and Fred Wadnola are prime culprits in the friction between Tech City and the Town of Ulster. They are sworn enemies of Ginsberg. Ask them and if they are being honest, they will tell you so. I give some credit where some credit is due and Woerner's was the first administration to work with Tech City in a positive way even though it was at the 11th hour and after neglecting them for 3 years. I would bet he had an ulterior motive that hopefully, we will never find out about.
There were/are many people over the years who have been consistently involved in helping Tech City finally get on the right track, no offense meant but, Nick Woerner and Jim Quigley are the least of them.
Please take the time to do a little more research on posts like this. I agree it is a great thing that Tech City may finally get moving and Jim Quigley is on board, but it is obvious to a lot of people who have been around for a long time that Jim Quigley is not the reason why there is good news coming from Tech City. In my view, it damages your credibility when you make incomplete, hero worshiped posts like this.
Check the on line New York State Board of Elections Campaign Finance Reports.
ReplyDeleteFriends of Nick Woerner July 15, 2009 Report
Alan Ginsberg 2/13/09 $500.00
Woerner - Artist - Secreto July 15, 2009 Report
AG Properties of Kingston LLC 6/25/09 $2,500
Nick paid attention to Tech City when he needed something!!!
I agree with 8:50, but even though there were some that tried to promote development at tech city but it has never been a priority on the town or county level ever. We have heard the word shovel ready for years, yet no one pushed the issue when it came to tech city. I have seen politicians tout the potential of sites with zero infrastructure yet not say one word about tech city which even if you throw away the buildings has a complete infrastructure ready to go.
ReplyDeleteOne other factor missing here is the Ginsberg factor over the years. I know politicians, potential tenants, and me personally who have had dealings with him. And he comes off as an arrogant, abrasive, idiot who wants things his way or the highway. One potential tenant once told me that they would sooner work out of an ice cave in the artic than even think about moving their business into Tech City while Ginsberg owns it. Now to me that doesn't sound very development friendly.
I really hope this works, but please tread lightly and spend very little of my money in the process. Because you can wite all of the imapct reports you want, spend all of the time and money you want to make this place marketable, but if the owner wants to be a selfish jerk you will accomplish nothing in the long run.
Or was it Ginsberg who "paid" attention? LOL!
ReplyDeleteMALONEY HAS COST THE TOWN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WITH HIS MISGUIDED ASSESMENTS (TECH CITY , CHAMBERS COURT, K-MART, HUDSON VALLEY MALL) IF WOERNER WON MALONEY WOULD BE FULLTIME FOR THE TOWN OF KINGSTON
ReplyDeleteWoerner could have let him go but but he must have liked what he was doing. Instead of firing or letting him go, Woerner gave him a nice raise and a nice contract extension. Nice try though, Woerner would have kept him on.
ReplyDeleteMaloney was doing what he was told to do. Just as he is doing now with Quigley and as he did with Wadnola before that. Whoever signs the paychecks is boss, don't blame Maloney, he will just follow orders to keep his job.
The next public dollar that goes to Tech City will be the first. Unlike other devlopers or development projects in the area, Ginsgerg has not taken a single dollar from the government. he does not use public money to make himself rich.
ReplyDeleteLook around that site, the government has not done a damn thing to help them. Boices Lane is atrocious, Enterprise Drive floods and the county cuts the grass around there maybe 2 or 3 times a year.
I hope Ginsberg's green site plan works, let him go and help him like you would help some guy who was looking to buy this place for the first time.
7:32, I have to disagree with you. Tech City has received a great many tax breaks and incentives from the government. Look here: http://www.techcityny.com/pdf/Globest.com%20-%205.29.09.pdf
ReplyDeleteThis statement: "The project is being privately financed, with the state granting a number of tax incentives to potential tenants, including business tax abatements, business tax reduction credits and exemptions, employee credits, loans and grants for infrastructure and workforce training, and investment tax credits."
Plus if I am not mistaken the EDZ designation enabled Mr. Ginsberg to avoid much of his taxes for the first several years he owned the complex.
This money does not fall from the sky. It tax payer funded money whether in the form of incentives or making up the difference because of tax breaks.
He has plenty of support from the government and says so himself:
"All of the support a developer would want has been granted to us," Ginsberg says. "Everyone wants to see this: they believe in us, trust us and respect us."
He has had a lot of time and support and a good economy in the past to make something work. Don't try to make us believe that he has it so bad.
By the way, how come the old Edgewater IBM property across 209 seems to have gotten a fair number of tenants in a few years? You don't hear much about them since the place was sold.
9:22, You are wrong. Any tax incentive for the EDZ was tied to job creation. So if "Tech City" was not creating jobs they got not breaks. Ginsberg was not eligible as the landlord for EDZ breaks. Future or potential tenants were. That program is now going by the wayside so now, no one will get them.
ReplyDeleteThe statement you quoted was based on speculation that Tech city may be granted money from both the Obama stimulus program and State and/or NYSERDA grants. Tech City got nothing. Again, I will still be correct when I say the next dollar Tech City gets from the Government will be the first.
I challenge you to list one single grant, tax break, pilot, or other government funded resource, by name or program, that was spent on Tech City.
Ginsberg's statements are based on the idea that the local government is behind him in his plans, and will help with reducing the obstacles that are usually associated with such a aggressive undertaking. He is correct in his statement.
Ginsberg NEVER had a lot of support. His reputation (earned or not) as being difficult to deal with made it very easy for Government to stay away, and stay away they did.
Edgewater sold those buildings after sitting vacant for many years. One building is occupied and the other is in complete disrepair. One of the entities residing in about 25% of the occupied building has received large Government subsidies in the past. If you didn't hear much from them, it is because you were not paying attention. They DEFINITELY asked for public funding and got it. One of their tenants happens to be the Social Security Administration, last time I checked, that is a government entity.
7:32 a la 4:18, clearly is on the Ginsberg Tech City Payroll. How else to explain all that LOVE!
ReplyDeleteUlster County has spent YEARS dealing with that Assho** and he has single handedly taken the train off the track every time a deal was close to being inked with insane add-ons, and conditions that have left the site a virtual ghost town. Go see Dennis Doyle or UCDC and look for the dust covered boxes with various plans and studies paid for by taxpayers to HELP Tech City that never materialized because of A.G.
Talk to ANY realtor in U.C. they will say the same!
How about the time when A.G. didn't pay his taxes and the county could have taken the place? Oh right... that's when Alan cut a deal with Lew Kirshner and once again FUC**D the taxpayers.......
9:50, Please cite one study (year and agency) that was done exclusivley for Tech City that was paid for with public money. I'll wait.........
ReplyDeleteBecause you do not like the way he does business, does not mean he gets treated differently than anyone else. Ginsberg has never, not once been afforded a preference. He has never had anything that any other taxpayer has a right to. He did not get a deal, he paid the taxes that were due, just as thousands of other large property owners do, at the last minute.
If Ginsberg was given even 5% of the financial help Steve Aaron or some of the other connected people were given, it would be a different story. He got nothing, he has spent his own money and he is still here plugging along.
Say what you will, but Mr. Ginsberg is nothing if not persistent.
2:38, MORE KOOL-AIDE PLEASE!
ReplyDeleteWhere is the proof? If he has had all of this support, financial and otherwise, why can't you produce one shred of evidence? Newspaper article, press release, anything? I'll tell you why, becuase he didn't.
ReplyDeleteTalk about drinking the Kool-Aid. It is easier to go along with the good old boys and believe something that you yourself do not know to be factual. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?
What was the deal with the back taxes? Anyone know the story on that? Did the county look at taking the property for taxes? I'm curious.
ReplyDeleteAG has gotten the same opportunities afforded that every other business that has moved into this area has. Whether he choses not to take advantage or pisses the community off to the extent that they won't deal with him is his problem. Almost every business that has moved into his complex is being subsidized with federal and state money. Hinchey has direct deposit going from my taxes to the solar consortium at this point. That money is being used to pay AG his rent. And many of these "businesses" aren't even producing a single thing other than promises. Once they do develop a product on my dime they are just going to take it to China or Mexico to mass produce anyway. Keep giving out the money Maurice, we need to get this solar research done so that we can give the people in China more jobs.
ReplyDeleteCry me a river. If this guy was so good at what he does how come Tech City is still a broken down blight on this community? Excuses are like a**holes, everyone has got one.
Tech city properties is actually a large group of individual properties. IBM broke it up when they owned it and the Town of Ulster went along with anything IBM asked back then. Around 5 - 7 years ago, Tech City fell behind 2 years on certain parcels, none that were occupied or income producing. Mostly parking lots and the buildings that were beyond repair. Worthless to anyone but Tech City. They waited until the last minute to pay the taxes on the current or 3rd year, which is the way it works, the property owner must pay the newest tax first. I am not sure, but I do not believe they got as far as the County Property tax auction. The County has traditionally let people pay right up to the day of the auction to prevent taking a property. The property would have been listed, and available for bid had Tech city not paid year 3 when they did.
ReplyDeleteIt is important to note that Tech City was also in court the entire time with the Town fighting the assessments. They withheld the taxes until the court case was done. When Tech City won, they paid the taxes in full. In the end, Tech city did the same thing that many large property owners do every year. Shrewd investors, can make more money with those taxes than the penalty for paying late is.
The town, county and school district had to come up with several million dollars in overpaid taxes and pay back Tech City. I believe there is still a significant line in the town budget on the pay back to Tech City and other over assessed properties that have been challenged and the town has lost.
Is Ginsberg wrong for accepting tenants? Why should he care where they get the rent check? It is not like he goes and asks for it, it is the tenants who go out with the tin cup. He is smart for getting them on his site. No one is forcing these people to go there.
ReplyDeleteI really sense that there are some people who are actually jealous of Ginsberg for having the balls to run things his way.
10:40 are you on the payroll of Tech City & A.G. I really have to ask, and are you the cheerleader who has led the charge on these past statements?
ReplyDeleteLet's see... "mostly parking lots and buildings beyond repair" Jeez, since he paid taxes on the ROADS within the property you could go to a tax sale and buy a land locked parcel with roads and HVAC controlled by your meglomaniac boss (oops, I just assume you work for this assho**, my bad). Get real. Kirshner another "tribesman" gave away the taxpayer's only leverage!
The only "balls" in this game aren't his, by any stretch of the imagination, he's too busy fu**ing some screamer in NYC. Hopefully he'll stay there and let you and Weinicke run the place properly. But please stop patronizing us with your BS about this jerk off.
You are correct on one count. I am jealous of Ginsberg, I wish I had gotten his sweetheart deal, and covered all of my expenses on BOA, with everything else being gravey, especially since Mo brought in all of these rediculous solar companies which will wind up overseas within 5 years.
10:45, I didn't say he was wrong for taking those tenants. I was pointing out that he and his potential tenants have all of the same opportunities afforded them that any other commercial landlord in this county does. Tech City and the immediate area even more so than some due to the fact that they have been in the current EDZ boundaries for years.
ReplyDeleteI find it funny that the AG Cheerleader on here choses to make excuses for the successes of the Edgewater Property by pointing out that the Social Security Administration is a tenant, yet forgets to point out that many businesses in Tech City are just as well funded with tax payer money from Hinchey's slush fund of pork. Not to mention the fact that AG had the same opportunity to cut a deal with the Social Security Admin as Edgewater but didn't.
My only point is that he has the same opportunities as everyone else, so don't try to make it sound like he is somehow a victim here.
Ginsberg was/is a victim of over assessment. He was proven to be a victim in a court of law. Over assessment is a huge problem in Ulster. Darn near every large parcel is in court against the town, and winning.
ReplyDeleteHe also got one HELL of a deal for that property back when it was in decent shape. And the banks that loaned him money knew it too, or he would not have gotten loans on it.
ReplyDeleteThat's right 8:36, how much did he take out in loans, I think it was a lot more than he paid for the place. You typically don't get that kind of money on a smile.
ReplyDelete8:36 and 9:48, What exactly is your point?
ReplyDelete3:53, the point is your boss is a lowlife scumbag, and your point... ?
ReplyDeleteI swear, I have never seen such a group of jealous people.
ReplyDeleteI can think of several other people from Ulster who fit that bill, but I would not say that about Mr. Ginsberg. Lowlife scumbag,really? Because he is a capitalist? What does that make Quigley?
My point is a simple one. If someone came into town today and bought Tech city, all of the politicians, would be tripping over their dicks to give them money. That has never happened for Ginsberg, not even close.
I am done with this. Apparently there are people who are envious of Ginsberg's ability to run his business the way he wants to.
9:19, lets be clear, WE (collectively who have responded to your PR campaign) live here and have lived through MANY promises and distortions at TC. Furthermore WE will still be here long after AG stops paying you and you move on to some other brownfield as chief spokesman.
ReplyDeleteCandor on the part of the other comments is directed negatively at AG because of his self-dealing and poor performance over the entire course of his ownership which has nothing to do with jealousy. Success at TC is a win for this entire community, but systemic failure from AG can be soley attributed to his insane self destructive behaviors. Subsequently very few people have a positive opinion of AG, and residents grow weary of another year dripping by watching the employees literally mowing the weed covered parking lots...
Jealousy?.. No.
Pathetic reality?.. Sadly, yes.
What 8:36 means is that AG cries that his assesment is too high because he only paid 3 million or whatever, yet banks were willing to give him tens of millions in loans. So apparently the property is worth a little more than he cries his assesment should be lowered to.
ReplyDeletePlease explain to me one opportunity that other properties have had that AG has not been available to him because he is being discriminated against? Name names so we know who not to vote for. Don't give me this assesment garbage, because every business in this world is filing for assesment reductions. Real discrimination, like he approached this congressman for grant money and was told no...we don't like you.
The debate should have been centered around possibilities for development of TC, issues, (mostly the opinions of 2 people) being raised here do little to advance the agenda of the Town or AG and have no place in a productive debate. AG is not wrong for trying to increase the profit potential of his holdings, the Town is not wrong for attempting to increase tax revenues by assisting in development, if they work together AG and Town's residents will benefit in many ways, ie, increased employment opportunity, increased tax base, improved appearance etc and Mr. Ginsberg would increase rental income, that's the way capitalism works, all the other noise offered by the polar opposites commenting here are useless and detract from the real issue.
ReplyDeleteIf you have ever negotiated with Alan Ginsberg, you know full well how unbelievably difficult this man can be. No sum gain comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteThe real issue is that it is about time!
ReplyDeleteTech City is a priority for Ulster, town and county. The tax base is very important to everyone. Quigley should be working hand in hand with Tech City to help develop it in a realistic, sustainable manner. Gone are the days of big sugar daddy companies filling up 100K+ sq ft. buildings. Time to reinvent the space and get it moving forward.
Hey Alan, where'd the black mold come from? That's a great excuse for a tax reduction.
ReplyDeletethe realm of the spirit for your own personal joy and to the profit of the community to which your later work belongs
ReplyDelete