I will probably lose some readers after this Post as it is slightly of off topic but worthy of discussion.
Our local newspapers have been full of information regarding shortfalls in the school budgets. Kingston Consolidated is one of local concern although events taking shape at both Saugerties and New Paltz are equally troubling.
It seems once again we taxpayers will be subject to our annual gut wrenching tax and tax levy increases and, once again the School Board will be deflecting their mismanagement upon the hard working residents of the School District.
I realize the situation might have been created in Albany, or even, if you wish, Washington DC, but the pain will be felt by local families trying so hard to keep a roof over their heads and even food on their tables.
Its time to send yet another message to our elected officials, it seems, like the health care bills, they haven't been reading them either.
Some logical ideas would be to consolidate one ore maybe even 2 of the elementary schools. I understand from going over past enrollment they once had double the students and half the teachers and staff as today. They also had a greater success rate than today.
Middle schools as well. Its great to provide additional services but once again the success rates do not substantiate throwing more and more money at a system barely functioning.
Our school system does do one thing well, it keeps far too many people on the payroll that taxpayers can no longer afford.
In short, we need to utilize a more equitable method for funding the system, although fixing it must preceded any such changes. The problem is, fixing the system requires difficult decisions and looking at our school board, I doubt they are up to the task.
Times are hard and will most likely get harder. The private sector has yet to begin adding jobs, in fact they are still bleeding jobs although at a slower pace, could it be that business has cut payroll as far as they can and just don't have many people left to lay off?
Continually raising taxes only exacerbates an already snowballing situation. The cycle of increased taxation has a negative effect on the situation, but, for an elected official who has never had to raise capital outside of taxation, it is their logical and easy choice.
Public sector jobs have now outpaced the private sector. At one time government positions were desired not for the pay but for the security. It seems they now have both and this can no longer be sustained.
When any system spends more than it brings in it is doomed to fail. It might have taken the worst recession in 30 years to shed light on the situation, but its failure in any case was inevitable.
I may not have the answers, whether you agree or disagree with some alternatives I outlined earlier is not the point. We need to find new solutions as the old ones no longer work.
It is my hope that in the comments that follow maybe one or two solid propositions will develop that can offer realistic choices to those who make the decisions.
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I know we can vote these guys out just like other elected officials, but is there any way we can vote out the entire board in one fell swoop?
ReplyDeleteSince you've gone off the reservation today, so will I... Anyone read today's (Thursday's) editorial in the Freeman?
ReplyDeleteIt would appear that Mike Hein landed in Ulster County on Election Day, and had never set foot here before. The editoral is critical of the Palen's and the old Legislature but once again gives Hein a free pass.
I'm sorry, maybe the Palen's were asleep at the switch over at the Health Department, but if they were Hein was in the next bunk over!
Anyone ever hear of "County Administrator Hein" or how about "Deputy County Treasurer Hein" two posts which purportedly had some oversight authority for the DOH!
Ira - Give us a FU**ING BREAK! and get your head out of Mike Hein's ASS!
2:20
ReplyDeleteAgreed, the Freeman is like a fixture up the old Heiny, no pun intended. They are his own personal platform for his propaganda program, maybe that is why readership is dwindling so fast, After 5 pm the only local paper left at the news stand is the freeman.
Ira is an ass! he honestly believes his opinion represents the way Ulster County residents feel.
Just show to go, elite is elite whether it is in DC or UC!
The Freeman kills Hinchey, Bonicac and Cahill. They kiss Heins ass at every turn. It doesn't add up.
ReplyDeleteI don;t remember reading all that much negative about Hinchey at least not in the freeman.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious, we know Cahill has to go, the earlier commenter is right 8 terms with nothing to show but typical Albany bull, yeah I agree.
Wise, from what I remember in 07 made a pretty good case, I think I'd like to hear more from him, as far as Maloney is concerned, isn't he supposed to serve 2 years as County legislator, with redistricting down to 23 or even 21, he better not let the residents who voted for him over Brian Cahill down, if he does I know a lot of people that will not vote for him.
2:20 - I'm not a Hein fan, but Dean Palen had been at the helm of the Health Dept. since 1994 - long before Hein was administrator. William Darwak was the administrator since 1987 (until he retired in 2004). Why didn't he fire the Palens? Because the county administrator didn't have the authority. The health department had its own board - and the Palens had them duped for years. Though I'm also opposed to the charter, it took the County Executive position to fire the Palens. BTW, Ulster County Administrator William Darwak received about $98,148 from the county after he retired (accumulation of vacation, sick time, etc.). So, if it's easy to trash Hein for NOT firing the Palens, start by trashing Republican William Darwak first.
ReplyDelete901, 220 here; Hein was ensconsed as Lew Kirshner's right hand man by mid '99 and as the Dep treasurer must have occasionally said "gee, what perchance do they do over there at the Health Department?" Darwak can never be accused of being the brightest bulb on the tree, but the constant refrain from the Freeman and Mr. Hein himself (via Vin Martello) certainly appears self serving at best and downright horseshit or worse! The dastardly Palen's simply appeared out of nowhere on Mike's watch and he slew the dragon? Get the FU** out of here! 901, let me put it another way...
ReplyDeleteHow would you feel about Darwak as county exec? That's my take on Hein and the constant tripe he forces down our throats with the refrain from "Oliver" ringing in my ears: "Thank you Sir, may I have more please?"
I have been a big supporter of Kevin Cahill for a very long time and will continue to be with good reason. Who ever says Cahill has nothing to show should really do their homework and ask around. I must warn you however, you will not find the answers in a Republican/Conservative committee meeting so it may take a little work on your part. I will help you with what I can come up with off the top of my head.
ReplyDeleteAsk the School superintendents, the Hospitals in his District, the Town Supervisors, the SUNY Colleges, especially New Paltz. How about the NFP's that he has helped like the Queens Galley, Coleman High School, The Hibernians, The Volunteer firefighters, ASK, UPAC, TSEC, The many Youth oriented Theater and Arts groups, Churches, Boys Scouts, Historical societies, Ulster-Greene ARC, Deitz Stadium Commission, Libraries, BOCES, Hospice, Agri-Business Child Development at St. Mary's, the Rail Trail groups, Maritime Museum.
This is what I can come up with just in a few minutes. So, please ask around, ask your neighbors, ask the people who are giving back to this community what they think of Kevin, you may get a different answer than you do from the people who have a penchant for repeating false and inaccurate information
The UC Health Dept. has its own board and did its own hiring and firing. Under the former form (?) of our county government, Darwak, Hein, Kirschner had NO SAY about the UC Health Dept. The Health Dept. was autonomous. The problem lay squarely on the shoulders of the legislature and the board (appointed by the legislature?). The Republicans were in the majority during the majority of the Palens' tenure. I know nothing about Darwak, so I can't comment as to how effective or ineffective he would be as county executive. For anyone to slam Hein as county administrator doing nothing about the situation is ridiculous. I was opposed to the charter because I'm opposed to the county executive position. We should go to a county manager, just as Kingston should go to a city manager. The problem with elected positions with so much power is that anyone can run. If you can raise the money and have the personality, you can get elected. Unfortunately, sometimes the winner is grossly unqualified for the position, but we can only run and elect someone who lives in the boundaries of the city or county. Slim pickings, for sure. But blaming Hein for the Palen debacle is not fair. The treasurer's office was separate from the auditor, and even then the health dept. may not have been subject to scrutiny by that dept. As I aforementioned, they were autonomous with their own board. There was nothing anyone could do, short of not re-appointing the useless board members and not re-electing the useless legislators. But, people here in UC continue to vote locally as they would nationally, ignoring the fact that our local legislators have no say on the national issues.
ReplyDeleteKevin Cahill may have done something for the arts but where has he been when it comes to CH's continued rate hikes, I'll tell you, hang'n with Uncle Shelly Silver trying to figure out how much more the MTA tax can be raised before local business starts belly-aching, or maybe hangn' with the rest of what is wrong with Albany, every one of those guys has to go unfortunately we can't vote on all of them. We CAN start with Cahill and should encourage all State voters to do the same.
ReplyDeleteDoing something for a handful of charitable organizations didn't keep taxes down, being invisible on making a more inviting atmosphere to businesses didn't increase the tax base, supporting an already dysfunctional school system. He may have done something for a handful of non-profits but NOTHING for the good of the District.
to 8:40, You will not get the real answers from keeping in a cloistered little circle of Republicans and Conservatives. There is a lot of misinformation out there. It takes intelligence and common sense to see through it.
ReplyDeleteI would much rather have Cahill as a friend to Silver than have him as an outsider like any Republican would be. Every dollar that makes it way to exit 19 from Albany is one less dollar that has to be raised locally. Cahill brings our tax dollars back to the community. A Republican would not. Just look at John Bonicac now that he is in the Minority. He has all but disappeared hasn't he?
Cahill has been against every single rate hike CHG&E have proposed. In fact, he forced the PSC (the ruling body on rate hikes, not the assembly which he is part of) to hold public hearing here in Kingston.
Cahill voted against the MTA tax.
If you think for one minute that the Arts is not an industry that provides many jobs, you are wrong.
UARC, the Hospitals, the Schools and colleges, huge employers one and all. They need to be kept viable or they fail and we lose those jobs too.
Name me one elected person who personally brings in industry? Cahill is doing what he can to get jobs here by supporting TSEC, the Colleges and BOCES. An educated, skilled workforce is the #1 draw to businesses looking to relocate, expand or start up.
I realize I will never convince you to vote for Cahill, but I will reply to each and everyone of your misinformed posts on this blog.
8:40, So am I to understand that you are saying Not for Profits are not doing anything for the good of the district? Really? Credibility = 0.
ReplyDelete10:48, You may not convince that guy, but you have convinced me.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you have convinced me, at least you have given me pause to check the facts further.
ReplyDeleteThe issue that still concerns me even after your quite informative comment is that no one seems to want to admit that Albany has been screwing the pooch since the beginning of time and I can't find anyone or anything that proves to me Cahill is just as culpable as the rest of the Assembly and my contention is these guys will never do anything to fix it so for the sake of our future we had better get fresh blood in there every chance we get.
I can see where you'd disagree with this summation, I really like to hear justification for spending and taxing up staters to subsidize the city of NY and Silver's personal pet peeves.
It makes no sense to me, I figure anything is better than what we've got and if the ones we elect in their place don't act responsibly, they should get the boot as well. I'm just so damned tired of career politicians who haven't a clue as to how the other half lives.
Please, I need a better reason than you have provided, enlighten me, (No Sarcasm intended).
I am listening, and you make a reasonable case but with Albany's dysfunction for years Cahill, like every other assemblyman, rep or dem is culpable. they have done nothing to curb spending, they have consistently enhanced their own positions and resort to higher taxes to plug the holes they themselves have created.
ReplyDeleteEconomic times are hard and I don't see any of them being responsible with tax dollars.
I still believe they all have to go, each and every one of them and most of them have become career politicians Cahill included. You've managed to persuade me you are worth listening to, You've got a chance to convince me, the ball is in your court.
The initial blog concerning the taxes, specifically school taxes, has some valid points. We need to come up with a way to fund education that is shared by all. I should say, up front, that I am an employee of a school district in Ulster County. I should also tell you that because of NCLB I needed to further my education and become certified(by the state ed department) to assist the teachers that I have worked with for the past 20 years. I welcomed those changes. The taxpayers did not pay for any of my college course work.
ReplyDeleteOn a daily basis it is my job to guide, reteach and support students that have the most difficulty in the academic setting. People that do what I do in schools are often the lifeline that these students need to be sucessful. You should also know that after 20 years I still do not make enough money to give up my second job. I know I might have found another job that pays more money, but I love what I do. If I were there for the money I would have left a long time ago.
In an ideal world we wouldn't have students with disabilities or children that come from homes where parents are struggling with addiction or poverty. Not all children come to school with the skills necessary to be succesful. It is our job to insure that these children get the most from their school experience and leave with the skills necessary to become successful,productive adults. Money should be focused on early intervention to help these struggling students gain the skills that will insure success. Often, money is spent on new text books, new math and reading programs as if they are the answer. People will make the difference.
It is my opinion that having adequate staffing in elementary schools to assist with the early intervention that is often needed will in the long run save money. School districts don't seem to understand that. They deny children speech therapy services when they have simple articulation problems. Hard to learn how to read when you cannot make the sounds of the letters properly. Simple to correct, but if not corrected can lead to a host of issues down the road. Instead of fixing it early on we wait for a child to waste at least 3 academic years before they are getting the services that could have been avoided with simple early intervention.
It is not possible for a single teacher to offer the extra support that many students need on a daily basis. So, we need to come up with a better way to fund education and at the same time stop bashing those of us that work extremely hard to help all students reach their full potential.
10:54 (and others about funding education): thought it would be difficult to transition, I think NYS ought to go to a county school system. Many states do this, and there are huge advantages - not the least of which is school choice in that you can have magnet schools. But UC has 9 school districts, which means 9 superintendents, 9 deputy, 9 deputy assistants, etc. There are millions of dollars wasted in administrative costs. What ticks me off is that school boards never look at the administration when trying to reduce costs; they look at cutting programs and teachers, which adversely affects the students. Would anyone be upset, other than Gretzinger, if he took a 10% (or more) pay cut from his $175,000 salary?
ReplyDeleteI agree with anonymous 8:21 that it might not be a bad idea to look at consolidating UC schools. I am the author of the comment prior to that one and you're are correct about cutting programs and staff that most affect students. In particular they look to lay off the least paid members of the staff. Frankly, they get the most bang for their buck from the teaching assistants and clerical workers. I personally have worked with many hard working, dedicated teachers along the way. They too are interested in the education and welfare of the students they have been entrusted to teach. As to the administrators-we can do with less. They are so far removed from the classroom yet make all the decisions. These complaints are nothing new. Let's stop wasting money on programs that are ineffective, textbooks that a company says will fix the problems and concentrate on nurturing children and challenging them to reach their full potential.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like there are some good ideas floating around, the last commenter summed it up nicely though when he or she mentions the redundancies present in the system and I can't agree enough that the process of educating our youth has fallen victim to the endless layers of administrators sucking up educational dollars that would be better spent on teachers and materials.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that we need to focus on consolidating a few of the schools which will reduce administration and some of these redundancies.
And 8:21 is correct, its about time that Gretzinger feels the same pinch most families are feeling in the current economy.
The worst thing about Gretzinger (and maybe other superintendents) is that he has no standards to meet. The school board demands nothing of him. So, he could be doing a really crappy job (the graduation rate, perhaps?) and no one is holding his feet to the fire. Why aren't there benchmarks in place so we and the board of education know whether or not he's doing his job?
ReplyDeleteit now costs more per year per student for public education than private.
ReplyDeleteThe estimated cost per student in NYS is close to 15k, I might be mistaken but Coleman HS isn't that high and their graduation rate is much higher, they have as many if not more athletic and scholastic programs for their students, the campus is safer than that of KHS but having your son or daughter attend Coleman will not save you 1 penny of your school tax bill. unless of course you choose to rent rather than own.
If I'm not mistaken, the NYS lottery was to subsidize the cost of education as well and the taxpayers of the state never get and accounting of where that money is going.
Redundancies aside, the education system is as broken and dysfunctional as the State Assembly and Senate. All I can say is the elected officials of NY are good at one thing that has been 'getting elected and re-elected and re-elected again. well there is one other thing they do well and that is spend money almost as fast and probably less efficiently than the Federal government.
I DON"T HAVE THE ANSWERS other than electing new faces from Albany to DC. But I'll tell you this, we can't afford it any longer, taxes and spending are too out of control, they can only get worse and at a much faster pace. It really cant continue this way.
Saugerties is getting smart, CONSOLIDATION OF SCHOOLS, when you have a shrinking student population it is the only responsible thing to do.
ReplyDeleteKingston Consolidated better get with the program! TOO MUCH ADMINISTRATION COSTS, its time to bring the district back from the brink and back to reality.
AUSTERITY BUDGET ANYONE?
2:05 and 2:11...
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I think Cahill would be the first to admit that there are major problems in Albany. Not quite as dysfunctional as is widely reported though. It is functioning OK, it just costs us and arm and a leg to do it!
The budget is created by the Governor's budget office where the first layers of pork are added. The Senate and the Assembly take swipes at it and add additional layers. Then they negotiate to remove most of the pork from all three contributors. Are there pet projects included in the end? Of course there are. Here's the hard part for Upstate representatives of both parties. Based on facts and raw numbers, NYC and Long Island hold enough seats in the Assembly and Senate to carry the day. It is a plain and simple fact. It doesn't matter if it is Democrats or Republicans, it only matters which party is in control. When the Republicans were in control of the Senate Long Island benefited greatly, now that it is the Democrats, it is New York City.
Cahill is very smart. He is one of the brightest people to hold public office that I can recall. He has worked himself into a position to be able to help when help is needed. So when Cahill needs money to get a dorm built at SUNY New Paltz because the kids are sleeping 4 to a room that was designed for 2, or the local hospitals are in an ideological stalemate over a state mandated merger and they need a clinic to resolve the issue, or if the local libraries need a program to draw kids in during the long summer, or the local soup kitchen is looking at budget short falls in the thousands of dollars, or the community college will need an updated nursing lab to stay certified, doesn't it make sense to be in a position to help? Is Cahill suppose to ignore these needs and these constituents? Would you? These are not frivolous projects with no positive impact to the community, these are serious problems that Cahill is able to get help for. They improve the quality of life for all of us in one way or another.
It is easy to say cut taxes and stop spending, but upstate is where the money stops coming first when that happens because of the aforementioned downstate voting block. Should Cahill be the white knight and take a philosophical stand and in so doing, have his district go without while others benefit? It is an almost impossible situation.
Short of a constitutional convention that incorporates some sort of a dramatic change in revenue distribution, what is Cahill or any other Senator or Assemblyman to do? He either plays by the existing rules and helps his district or he rebels and gets nothing at all for our tax dollars. It is a conundrum that all State Legislators face. In the mean time, Cahill continues to advocate for things like property tax reform, improved oversight and fairness in educational spending.
One thing that is hardly ever mentioned is that most of the tax revenue in New York does not come from Upstate, it is from New York City, specifically corporate income tax. Hence New York's desperate financial situation today. Reduced corporate profits and massive layoffs in NYC mean reduced income tax revenue for the State.
The system needs an overhaul, no doubt about it. It will require a Constitutional Convention to change it. Until then, Democrats and Republicans alike will unquestionably play the game under these rules.
Why is it that we rate a politician based on how much of OUR money he gives back to us? To use Cahill's support of the many various groups that he has given money to as a reason to re-elect him is plain dumb. Just like all of the people that love Bonacaic because of the money that he gives out to various groups and organizations. It is our money that the state should not have taken in the first place. If someone steals all of your Rib Eye steaks and throws a couple of hamburgers your way do you praise the ground that they walk on. I don't.
ReplyDeleteThere is not one politician in Albany (except maybe Patterson as scary as that is) that has challenged and fought to change the broken system. Sure they all make some nice statements and have a couple public hearings but there is no way that they will risk their career to fight the system. Even when Bonaciac went against the system a couple of years ago he did it as a planned well executed chess move because he knew Bruno wasn't long for this world and his statements wouldn't sink his carreer. Sure Cahill publicly spoke out against CH&E rate hikes and the MTA taxes, but he knew they were done deals and he wasn't about to take it any further then a photo op. And since this is an acceptable "save face" move as is recognized by the system, Silver nor any other person in leadership would go after him for not towing the line in this case. But now he owes them when others have to "save face" and vote no and his yes vote will be needed to tip the scales.
I am against term limits but I am becoming more and more convinced that we need them to stop the electorate from being bribed by the system and constantly fooled by politicians because the people know no better and don't understand how planned out to preserve the system everything that takes place in Albany and Washington really is. We don't need career politicians we need statesmen.
8:34 said " the people know no better and don't understand "
ReplyDeleteReally? Says who, you? Are you that much smarter than the "people" ? I think most voters know what they are doing. Don't be so quick to assume. Maybe they just disagree with you.
you could be right 8:53.
ReplyDeleteMaybe people like having their property taxes increasing by double digits every year. Maybe they like the fact that businesses are tripping over themselves to get out of this state. Maybe they are happy with the fact their state representatives are paid over 100k a year to do a part time job that resembles a highschool soap opera meanwhile these same politicians try to convince them that a everyone else is evil and must be stopped. Maybe people are happy with the fact that our governments are controlled not by the people but by organizations like Planned Parenthood, the NRA, Move-on.org, big oil, lobbyists for lawyers, insurance companies, etc. etc. and don't forget Fox news, MSNBC, the NY Times and the list goes on.
You're right, who am I to judge. I am not smarter than anyone else. But I am smart enough to believe that my opinion should count just as much as yours, a lobbyists, big business and a political donor. Or maybe that just makes me an idiot. Maybe I would do better to go with the flow and make money off of the system than to try to change it for the better.
9:50,
ReplyDeleteYou simplify it to one big problem. You railed about the inclusive layers of Government, all of the ills as if they are one huge interrelated organization, which of course they are not. ie: I can't recall the last time I saw an NRA lobbyist or Planned Parenthood lobbyist at a school board meeting, which is of course where the majority of property taxes come from. Big Oil speaking on behalf of, or Fox or MSNBC reporting on minimum staffing for the KPD? (Local taxes do after all, make up the other majority of your property taxes) Nope, haven't seen them at meetings either.
You have not offered one solution other than vote them out. Ok, so you vote them out, every last one of them, then what? Better yet, run for office and put your ideas to the test and really try and "change it for the better" with actions instead of words.
That's right vote them out. Vote in people that tell you what they are going to do then hold them to it. If they don't follow through then vote them out. After a couple of cycles these guys will figure it out. Most of my references had to do with state and national level government.
ReplyDeleteBut let us look at how it applies to the local level, our state has set up the system of property tax to pay for your local schools augmented by state funding. As we are learning this year, if the state cuts we get nailed. This is a subject that have heard assemblyman Cahill complain about the need to fix on MANY occasions, but nothing. Apparently he can't fix this system so it is time to find someone else. That is why I stopped voting for him several elections ago. You are right the NRA and Planned Parenthood doesn't come to our school board meeting, but what about the agenda that Planned Parenthood pushes on a state and national level which turn into unfunded mandates that has to be paid for at your local school board meeting. And here is a state organization that definately has a say about local issues, they are called the United Federation of Teachers.
We need to vote every last one out and keep doing it until we find people that follow through on their words. As for me, you won't see me run, because politics is a richman's sport and frankly my money can be put to much better use to do real good in the community. But I do follow through with actions, I vote every chance we get to make our voices known, and I am happy to work on the election of any person I think will do a good job no matter what their affiliation.
11:50
ReplyDeleteGood job, I agree Every last one of them have to go. and yes in 2 or 3 election cycles after we clean house they might start to see the light. Then public service will be just that public service not an alternative to a private sector career but an enhancement. That's why its called PUBLIC SERVICE, you wont find a political position iisted on the 'LADDERS.COM"
Again I say, 11:50 good job!
Some people go to college to become public servants. Election or no election, that is their vocation. Look at Bonacic and Cahill, both are lawyers who could make much, much more in the private sector. I say if you can get a well educated person to work for the wages that public service pays, you are getting a good deal.
ReplyDeleteDo not compare the salary to an uneducated laborer or truck driver, that is not fair. Compare it to the field they are trained in. There are not too many lawyers working for under 100k at 50+ years old.
6:45
ReplyDeleteThat's if they were good enough at their profession to be successful, I think the both of them, Bonacic and Cahill would have ended up ambulance chasers and the legal profession is the perfect place for slime. And besides you sound just a little elitist when you demean the professions of laborers and truck drivers, many of the hard working men and women in blue collar professions have more character and ethics than most of the idiots we elect.
You can keep all the professional politicians, even making it their profession they are failures from their 1st term.
6:45
ReplyDeleteUnder a 100k what are you smoking. Their salaries that the state pays are well above 100k, plus their health benefits. Then there are the perks, and that is a whole seperate blog in and of itself.
And I wouldn't put down tradesmen and laborers. The ones I know have more talent then me, you, Bonaciac and Cahill combined. They certainly work harder. Actually they work full time which is not the case of state legislators.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym. Those who can't teach gym are administrators.
ReplyDeleteAnd those who can't do any of the above, have no morals, are willing to take every opportunity to use others to make themselves and their friends rich, and who can lie to your face at will become career politicians which is not a vocation. It is a rackett!!
The trouble with all the elite Know-it -all's is their holier than thou attitude that they know what's best for everyone else. That anyone not like minded must be ignorant. They don't teach they tell!
ReplyDeleteTHe fact that speech is only free when they are the one's doing the speaking is getting a little old as far as I'm concerned.
And government in their hands has failed time and time again.
New York State Legislators (Senate and Assembly) are paid $79,500 per year. If you are in one of the leadership positions there is up to $15,000 in additional salary. Chair a committee and it is $12,500. There is also a per diem $160 that can be collected for those who choose to. I would say the $100K is about right, maybe even high for those who do not collect the per diem. Any decent Lawyer can get $100K a year in the private sector, plus benefits.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you guys talking about? Where was anyone demeaning or elitist?
ReplyDeleteSaying "uneducated laborer or truck driver" is not demeaning at all, it is factual. Most laborers and drivers do not hold advanced degrees. Doctors, Lawyers, or anyone with a PHD, worked long and hard for that degree. Higher compensation usually follows an advanced education is all they were saying.
The statements below are predictable and also very typical of what happens when a debate is going south for one side. The name calling, unsubstantiated accusations,and other anger or frustration driven comments show that the person writing is no longer open to understanding. They have shut down the ability to reason and have let their emotions take over the argument.
ReplyDeleteambulance chasers and the legal profession is the perfect place for slime.
most of the idiots we elect
have no morals, are willing to take every opportunity to use others to make themselves and their friends rich, and who can lie to your face at will become career politicians
elite Know-it -all's is their holier than thou attitude that they know what's best for everyone else
Or maybe Dr. Blog, people have started to take up the same type of emotional anger at government that government has been promoting the people to take up at such groups such as bankers, terrorists, wall st, oil companies, doctors, insuance companies, etc. etc. Bush was great at fear based politics, and I thought Obama wasn't going to do it. But I guess he figured out that was a much easier road to go.
ReplyDeleteTune in everyday at 1pm and Mr. Gibbs during his whitehouse press briefing will tell you who we are supposed to hate and be mad at today. He will tell you who is at fault for all of the world's woes (as long as it isn't government). Eventually if you promote the anger enough, it will fester and overflow and finally backfire on you aka The Government.
So if one were to net your argument to the root cause,it is Bush's fault. I knew it! ;-)
ReplyDeleteIsn't it always Bush's fault? NY wouldn't be broke and we would be praising the leadership of Bonaciac and Cahill right now if it wasn't for Bush. LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteDr Blog, I presume by your nom de plume you are indeed a Dr. but of what?
ReplyDeleteIt seems you feel that the only way one is worthy of accolade is when they have a PHD after their name, there is intelligence and then there is knowledge, the 2 do not necessarily go hand in hand, and you sir are the perfect example.
Just to point a fact, Plumbers, a profession not really pursued by anyone holding a certificate of higher education make about the same as one of those lawyers you seem to believe have a lock on intelligence.
Oh and by the way, being educated does not mean that you automatically gain character or become ethical. If that were the case the John Edwards' of the world would never stumble on the most fundamental facts of life. "Credibility'!
Your defense of your criticism regarding hatred falls short as you continue to defend positions emasculating professions that do not make the man, rather than the man that makes the profession.
You and the presumably other 10% of the Left and the Right who place yourselves above the average citizen can't make a case when question by logical men and women,for ideology does not trump logic.
My highest paid friends are tradesmen. They make more then others that I know who are doctors, lawyers, teachers and the like. Plus they have the luxury of not having the college loans that go along with with those 4, 6, and 8 year attendance certificates that hang on the walls of your local "professionals" offices.
ReplyDeleteFrankly I would trust this state to an electrician who has owned and operated his own business for 20 years rather than to a lawyer who has spent the majoity of his career making money off of government.
I'll tell you another thing, I wish every day that I had gone to BOCES and learned a trade in highschool.
Who said anything about a plumber or electrician or a carpenter or any tradesman? I did not see that anywhere.
ReplyDeleteAll of those vocations are on par or better than a lawyer or a Doctor under certain conditions. Certainly better than a PHD in teaching or social work.
It says uneducated laborer or truck driver.
Stop twisting words folks or brush up on your reading comprehension.
Ok there smart guy. I have two friends that are Teamster truck drivers and one that is a Union Laborer and all are also on par salary-wise with a lawyer. And the laborer is a hell of a lot more talented, a matter of fact laborers are considered tradesmen as well as truck drivers. And many are very well paid, both union and non-union. A matter of fact 1 DWI ends the career of a truck driver with a CDL. I was at a local Kingston Watering hole last weekend and saw two lawyers get in their cars after several drinks so apparently the requirements governing them are a little less. And as for politicians.....one word: Ted Kennedy.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you have a prejudicial view of what you believe these workers to be. Do you assume that the only laborers are mexicans standing in front of a Home Depot? Stop putting hateful and demeaning words out there and we will stop twisting them.
And one more thing about uneducated. There is a local Kingston Businessman who had a very successful career until retirement where he built 1 successful business and made a mint in real estate holdings. He came from a not rich family and didn't even have a highschool education.
ReplyDeleteThat is what is great about America anyone who is willing to work hard can make it big. But just because you have a piece of paper doesn't mean that you should be able to live off of hard working people for the rest of your life (even after retirement). If Cahill and Bonaciac are such great people let them work for free. Run a private practice and work in Albany for a small stipend like in other states. Those are people that really serve their state out of a sense of duty and not just a paycheck and some great perks.
since when does uneducated mean unintelligent. A person may not know the difference between a Rembrandt and a Monet or good poetry from bad, does that mean he is unintelligent? I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteSince when did uneducated become a hateful or demeaning word and where did anyone mention the intelligence of any worker?
ReplyDeleteThe post was merely comparing the potential for income based on ones education, nothing more, nothing less. Read it again, this time with an open mind and a 5th graders reading comprehension level. Here is it again in case you forgot what it said.
Do not compare the salary to an uneducated laborer or truck driver, that is not fair. Compare it to the field they are trained in.
Twist these final words if you must. I am done with this pointless bickering with a someone who seems to be determined to mischaracterize what I write.
There is a lot to be said for people who choose a career as elected public servants. They know full well that somewhere near 1/2 the people they represent and deal with on a regular basis may not agree with them. This blog is a perfect example. Not all of them use it to their personal advantage, of course some do. Those people who do should be removed from office by what ever means it takes. Preferably voted out by an informed public. Others however, who are true civic leaders, trying to improve the community for everyone should be encouraged to continue.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with everything these guys do or how they vote on every single issue but in the long run, I consider both Cahill and Bonacic very good civic leaders and very good representatives. They have both earned my vote for reelection.
Am I hearing "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater"
ReplyDeleteThe problem: Its a little late for that, those who contaminate the entire pool seem to hold the reins, maybe the institution itself has morphed into something that can no longer function.
I don't see any of our representatives fighting the system, most of the rules and regulations they vote for usually increase their power base or secure their position. On this they all seem to agree.
It's time to elect officials willing to give the power they co-opted back to the people that they represent.
It can start with redistricting and term limits, much of it will be constitutional changes, this is not only true in Albany but DC as well.
On a different note, I read the comment of 6:35 with some interest, I followed the thread back to his original comment and one I believe he penned later and there was some criticism of hate filled rhetoric, ie: his reference to 'most of the idiots we elect"
It seems his comment regarding '5th graders proves the point he criticizes, so I ask, Who is it that needs an open mind?
1 comment after dozens of misrepresentations of what was written? I think the thread speaks for itself.
ReplyDelete