While many of the questions asked of the developer at Town Hall are reasonable, if there are any issues regarding the Millen's Operation that are not addressed, this developer seems to be willing to oblige.
Although my opinion can be considered uninformed, from what I can glean from the developers plan, it seems to take into consideration many of the objections voiced by local residents.
The developer seems to be investing in a state of the art operation that will offer the town 'quality development' for the first time in as many years as I am a resident.
I can sympathize with homeowners located in or near the project site, no one wants to have his property negatively affected by commercial development, however the area is zoned for such development and residents should consider the investment Millen's is making to be a good neighbor.
The Town needs growth, commercial as well as residential, you really can't have one without the other. I'm sure this post will receive a lot of criticism for not taking a stand one way or the other however, If Supervisor Quigley continues to let the process advance without the interference and manipulation for which the former supervisor was famous, I'm sure the laws that are in place to defend concerned residents will be sufficient to see that only acceptable development proceeds.
I concur! As long as Millens follows the rules, this looks like a reasonable project. BTW, are they looking for a handout like all these solar companies? I bet not!
ReplyDeleteI've been following the millen's project for a while, and I don't really know anything about it. We have not seen ANY site plans, just vague overhead maps that are incomplete for what they are intended to convey. The satellite map is so blurry that it does not even depict a house that will be about 400-500 feet away from the back of the building.The hilly geography will be perfect for the shredder water (the project engineer said they would be dumping that on ground)to run directly into the 4 federal wetlands and neighboring stream. As far as growth, let's get a handle on the fact that town of ulster citizens should be paying next to nothing in taxes because we have so much development. It's an enormous failure. Smart economic development is what we need. Homes are forever. Industry comes and goes. Look at the rondout.
ReplyDelete10:06 look at midtown...
ReplyDeleteThere were plenty of homes there too once. There still there - you just wouldn't want to live in them! Homes are forever when breadwinners can actually go out and EARN some BREAD. When the BREAD dries up, the houses become VACANT!
The failure of the town and county was putting their trust in Big Blue to play fair and genuinely support this community. Our bad! IBM turned out to be another scumbag mega-corp that has sucked the teat dry and moved on.
No one is going to allow a superfund site in the making to be placed on Rt 32. Lets follow the process and hold Millens accountable to the process and hopefully everyone can benefit.
After reading both comments I'm wondering just WHO is going to be watching Millens "recycling" once they develop this area.
ReplyDeleteyou're right...no-one is going to allow a super fund site to move in... the process is. If they are on the up and up, why don't they tell us anything? I guess it's ok to let them move there and maybe pollute wells, maybe pollute the wetlands (which will in turn pollute the Hudson)and maybe destroy peoples dreams and property values. The fact is, with a 1600 page dec rap sheet, these things WILL happen. The object here, especially after celebrating 400 years since Henry Hudson's voyage, is preservation. It is an environmental catastrophe waiting to happen. Once it's gone, it's gone. Who is going to benefit?
ReplyDeleteI am always leery of a company that has a well documented checkered past that now, all of a sudden, has turned over a new leaf. Will they now be an environmental steward? I doubt it very much. Quigley needs to make sure he has everything in writing and it is enforceable.
ReplyDeleteI agree... and I feel supervisor Quigley has great integrity and will do a good job of that. The nature of the recycling business does not lend itself well to environmental stewardship. The real question is the big picture. What makes such a difficult site to develop so attractive? If we can put a junkyard in a wetland, what CAN'T we put in a wetland? Ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteLudicrous? Hey 9:45, let's look at the painful truth...
ReplyDelete1. Route 32 is zoned OM Office Manufacturing.
2. Millens isn't looking for a fu*king dime from the taxpayers.
3. The 39 acres of undeveloped land have no real value from the perspective of tax base, whereas this project will contribute commercial tax $$$ to the town.
4. Wetlands surround this parcel and lie most especially to the North - right in Mr. Sweeney's front yard - at the property line of the COUNTY DUMP.
5. To the South there is... a BLACKTOP PLANT and... WASTE MANAGEMENT.
6. This project creates JOBS in our town.
7. Last year none of you or your comments would have mattered a damn, because your fearless leader Jingeles/Aaron/Zweben were running the town. Finally someone who cares comes along, and all you folks want to do is bust his balls.
Yeah I can really see how ludicrous this is.
uhm..Am interested in the "jobs" who the hell wants to work in a junkyard? And what are they going to pay.. $10 an hour?! Whhhooweee hold the phones I think I'll have to quit that high paying RETAIL and FAST FOOD job I have to go work there. What we need are REAL jobs. 10-15 "jobs" sorting junk and pulling levers, frying up preheated food and folding clothing in a retail store none of which offer benefits OR health insurance sound like great "jobs" to me.
ReplyDeleteI don't give a crap who's in office. Show me results that make sense not insults me. Look around.. WHERE ARE THE GREAT PAYING JOBS???!
PS. since when is a junkyard zoned for office/manufacturing zoning. AHA! via beaurocratic bullcrap permits. Face it, they'll get what they want, all you need is the $$$$..the environment will get trashed, 32 will look even more like a wasteland, 10 people will get their "jobs" sorting trash, (wow so awesome.. good job) and life will go on.. viva la town of ulster.
Yeah I CAN see how ludicrous this is. ;)
I love how I scrolled down and there's a sentence that says, "beauty surrounds us, and family life in your backyard!" photos of wildlife that won't be there once the 36 acres is developed into a junkyard.
ReplyDeleteIrony at it's best.
12:29 Anything ludicrous about your property taxes? Keep pushing business out and you'll see just how the formula works. You want to see a wasteland? Look at pictures of suburban areas of Detroit where those single family homes are being torn down because the neighborhoods ARE a WASTELAND! Maybe when there are NO jobs the wildlife can thrive in the abandoned backyards.
ReplyDeleteI guarantee Millens pays his people a lot better than $10/hr, but he still gets screwed because the Mexican's on Abeel Street taking your scrap don't comply with ANY laws and NO ONE CARES!
1139 how much you make on welfare
ReplyDelete618 and 525
ReplyDeleteYou're right. You win. Hope you sleep well at night knowing just how ridiculous you are. For all YOU know, I AM someone who works for "millens" playing devils advocate.
and so what if I'm working ..let's say 2 jobs.. how does that put me on welfare..how much you make on unemployment?
and yes, property taxes, school taxes on and on and on.. keeps going up. I don't see how even 10-20 $15 an hour jobs are beneficial to this area. Not for the amount of pollution this will bring to this site. Put it someplace else. Period.
o.k. painful truth 11:39pm i'm back. Let me educate you...
ReplyDelete1.32 is O/M zoning. Junkyards are zoned I. You should look through your codebook.
2.Millens doesn't need a taxpayer dime because government moneys have been procured for them. They are not asking so that they look clean.
3.It isn't a tax base issue. That's conjured. When did your environment that you rely on for water and air become disposable?
4.You are the first to drop names and that's a foul ball. Do it again and the laundry list gets aired. They are wetlands. Just because you have a computer doesn't mean that you are smart enough to know what those are. It's a shame that you can vote.
5. Let's put in a nuclear power plant, too. Who gives a shit, they will pay really well.Taxes will probably be really good for us too.
6.This project will not create jobs. People who already work there will retain their jobs. Ask anyone at UCDC.
7.First of all, no-one is breaking anyone's chops. I believe Mr. Quigley is very genuine and has much integrity. You make it seem, however, that those opposed to the project are "breaking his balls". He and the other board members were put there to listen, were they not? Or has the fate of this matter already been decided?
7:39
ReplyDeleteSo I guess developing the 25 acres behind the Hoe bowl (Ulster Manor) for 150 residential units is better than a waste mgt plant. listen for all the miles of blacktop that will traverse the 150 homes, all the waste water runoff all the cars and all the fire places burning wood are better" NOT!
It might not even be as pretty as Millens when it all done but the key here is not one job will be created once construction is complete. and I guarantee that the same indians are buried at both. Give me commercial development any day, it doesn't tax the infrastructure (school system, police fire etc.) the way 360 new residents (working elsewhere by the way) would.
I know that you can't please the extreme on either side of the issue, but the reality is the TOWN OF ULSTER needs growth, commercial as well as housing, the current resident's can't afford the big contracts the police dept has and it's only gonna get worse as time goes by, a dwindling populace leaves devastation in its wake, no tax base, crumbling infrastructure and a lousy school system, just look a mile or so down the road, the city of Kingston is Ulster's future without development.
What about property values then?
What are the alternative uses for this parcel? Is 835 correct, will it ultimately become residental cluster housing? Why is this such an enflamed issue? Can no one find common ground here? Does it have to be Yea or Nay?
ReplyDelete9:03
ReplyDeleteThe extremes would have you believe it can only be their way, but that leaves a whole lot of residents out in the cold, there will always be those who will promote or detract issues from development to lets say healthcare and damn the torpedos full steam ahead, like the original piece states let the process move forward, the town seems to be in more capable and more honest hands than the past 4 years, I'm sure the new board and supervisor will see that the rights of both the developer and the neighboring community will be protected and just as importantly it will open and above board, not behind closed doors with attorney's calling the shots so that a few people can prosper financially or politically.
Keep one thing in mind however, the economy will be lagging for some time to come, can we afford to forgo the opportunity for growth by allowing the towns and counties around us to succeed where we fail?
It seems to me millens is looking to be a good neighbor to the community,
remember the Kingston Block situation, when agreements were arranged behind closed doors, the people of Tall Oaks are still suffering, I think we see such a distrust of developers in general because our former representatives disregarded or manipulated the rules and laws thus allowing less than reasonable development, if the board holds to the process we might find development and industry can be a good thing.
1003, I (903)appreciate your perspective and really hope cooler minds will prevail. As the original post indicates the process is ongoing. My real concern is the level of personal rancor that is fielded over these seemingly ordinary business issues. Everyone should take a more mature and health approach to this. Time will tell.
ReplyDeleteBaffling...
ReplyDeleteThe great minds of growth speak.
Of all of the posts that question the quality of the sites chosen for these projects, no-one answers.
No -one has any detailed responses to zoning. It is an O/M zone, not industrial.
The wetlands are protected by laws to protect the welfare of people.
The opposition is questioning the difficulty of the sites.
There are much better sites for millens, ie. Tilcon.
What tax revenue do we get from a hole in the ground?
As usual, the old stand by about people who question what is being done is to call them extreme. Enough is enough. We cannot afford to forge ahead recklessly anymore.
O.K. pro-Millens people...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know what the building looks like?
Do you know that no site plans have been publicly proposed to the planning board or the town board?
Does anyone know anything about the shredder?What about the dust it creates?
Or is it a wet system?
Any stormwater plans?
Who filled out the EAF?
Where is the funding coming from?
Do you know that the town engineer and the Millens engineer are the SAME people? That's a conflict of interest.
Extremists or not, people deserve the answers to these and other questions!
It seems like a lot of people have a lot of general things to say to muddy the waters...
nobody will touch the details. Again, if the project is as squeaky clean as it is promised, why not be transparent?Anybody?
12:05 & 11:39
ReplyDeleteSite Plan Approval a Environmental Impact Statement, oh before that the DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT and oh yes State Environmental Quality Review Act, (SEQRA) are all part of the process, these have yet to be addressed, in fact the meeting on 2/18 was so that residents can submit questions and raise issues with the proposed development which will be addressed in the EIS after a review of the DEIS.
IT"S A PROCESS--DUH!
As far as the TIlcon property is concerned, how can you know if it is economically realistic to develop, what is the cost of the property, is the owner interested in selling, You know the Town can't order them to sell, at least not yet, are you proposing 'EMINENT DOMAIN' remember your home could be next!
Look at what is going on at the COunty Level, Shapiro and Gregorious are standing in the way of development to keep Woodstock in the 19th Century, how can anything ever go forward when the extremes get involved.
Reasonable People, Cooler heads and a legitimate process is the only way forward, the town county and state have been losing businesses and bleeding jobs for far too long, we can boast the top 10 counties in the country for highest real estate taxes, we can't be another California, its time for cooler heads to prevail.
Bring back Nick B. Woerner
ReplyDelete6:48
ReplyDeleteU must B out of your cotton pick'n mind, he's the reason the town is as screwed up as it is. More importantly, if the developer came to him with a campaign contribution the process would have been taken by Mr. Zweben into the back room, they would have diveded up the money and rammed the project down the throats of the town without the process that is in place to protect the residents and the developer,How quick we forget the Dunklin Donuts/Hampton Inn on Ulster Ave and AARON's Chambers Projects not to mention all the tax abatements that gave away all our tax revenue.
I think you should move to New Jersey, they wont notice a little more corruption.
SAVE THE RIDGE! Instead of destroying the areas of the Ulster Manor and Millen's Steel, why can't we save it for future generations? Everywhere you go, there are historical markers touting what the ‘White Man’ has done there... discoveries or wars won, etc. Even the ‘Slave’ grave yards and other places where there were slaves, have a marker. Nowhere do you see markers for the ‘Native American Indians!’ This would be a great opportunity to preserve a pristine, as of yet untouched area of wilderness. These two areas have not been touched since the last ‘Native American’ roamed there, hundreds and thousands of years ago. There may still be ‘Native Peoples’ buried that have not yet been found…artifacts not yet discovered. This area could be a learning tool for our community, children and great grand children and many generations to come. A trail could be designed so that anyone could follow in the footsteps of the Native Peoples. Along the way, you can learn something about the Native American Indians. What the Stone House Day does in Hurly for that community, this ridge could do for the ‘Native American Indians’ of Ulster County and New York State. As you walk along the trail, you can meet ‘Native Peoples’ discussing the ways of their ancestors with demonstrations….in the same manner those who participate in the Stone House Days do. It would be more of a boon to Ulster County then a housing development and a junk yard because it would bring visitors from all around…and what do visitors do? They spend money, not only on the site, but within the local area. Never forget, it was the ‘Native American Indians’ that saved the white people from certain extinction one winter many hundreds of years ago. How has the white man paid them back? They took away their land, gave them blankets laced with smallpox and destroyed the buffalo, the Indians main food supply. Let us give something back to the ‘Native American Indians’ for a change instead of taking or destroying. Thanks.
ReplyDelete12:17
ReplyDeleteThe only problem with your concept is that town and county government will keep raising taxes on residents to make up for the lost revenue by not growing the industry base, also there wont be any jobs for our children or grandchildren to help them afford a house in a town or county that will bleed them until the move to a more economically friendly area, like the Carolina's or Texas. So there will be all this undeveloped land with signs pointing to Indian artifacts and no one living in the area to visit them.
I know this sounds a little cynical but in times like these i think a little reality is sobering.
There has to be a balance somewhere that allows town growth to pay for the services that keep sapping our tax dollars.
Good government can help, yes fiscally conservative representatives can control spending to a degree but the willingness to cut spending by getting harder on unions and bringing government jobs under control is lacking in all representatives.
New York State will go the way of California, Michigan, New Jersey and Illinois unless we begin to invite business back to the region.
Your argument is a little unrealistic in the light of the current economy.
Unemployment in the County is up to 9%, (give or take), as it rises so too does the amount of sales tax revenue which causes shortfalls in county and town budgets which leads to higher real estate and school taxes which causes residents to lose their homes which lowers the tax base all the more which causes further tax increases etc etc and so on and so forth. Do me a favor, I was only slightly irritated when I began this comment, now I am beginning to wish you had done a little research before yo let your fingers do the talking.
WE NEED COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT< WE NEED Bellayre, we need Millens, we need a whole lot of what is moving to GREENE & COLUMBIA & DUTCHESS Counties, if we work hard enough at it and let the process move ahead we may all be surprised at what we can accomplish.
Ok Mr. Woerner. You wont ever be elected again in the Town of Ulster for as long as you live. Just move on.
ReplyDeleteCommercial development doesn't necessarily lower taxes. New Jersey is a perfect example. Despite all the industry and tourism to their beaches, their taxes are exorbitant. You're forgetting that with the revenue and jobs generated by any development (residential, commercial, industrial), there are costs as well: police, fire, roadways to be paved and plowed, water and sewer, etc. There are almost always tax incentives which means the residents have to pick up the tab.
ReplyDeleteThe previous comment, 1:34 should have began with the Phrase, POORLY PLANNED COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT and add POORLY PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT in combination with CORRUPTION and UNREALISTIC SPENDING is what has forced Jersey to the top of the TAX TABLE! BAD CONTRACTS with public service employees and the Union deals that protect them are also contributing to an unsustainable situation and like New York reality will be a bitter pill to swallow. A reduction in Union Benefits, a freeze on hiring and wages and even job reduction through attrition and early retirement compensation pkgs are fast becoming a necessity.
ReplyDeleteThe School System is broken and filled with Bloated Administrative waste, school consolidations had better be considered. While the student population is on the decline, the administrative support has increased and elementary and middle schools should be merged where logistically feasible thus cutting fixed overhead and allowing a reduction in teaching and administrative costs.
I was reluctant at one time to suggest such "Improvements" to the structure of the school system, however the hard times we currently face will be with us for some time to come and a 10% contribution for a year for teaches health care is not a fix. Something is wrong with the entire system when the Schools are broke but the unions hold a $17 million dollar fund for teachers healthcare. That's your tax dollars, more than enough to fund the budget increases for years to come gone to overpaying teaches and staff by insuring their benefit packages continue while. BUT I DIGRESS.
There is a lot wrong with the system even in prosperity, in the current economic landscape the whole damn thing is a disaster, that cliff that OBAMA said he saved has been moved to the states counties and towns.
Wake up People!
8:31 says "POORLY PLANNED COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT and add POORLY PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT in combination with CORRUPTION and UNREALISTIC SPENDING..." Is Ulster County any different? It doesn't seem so. So what's to guarantee that Millens Steel is going to be well planned and without any corruption? Al Spada is trying to get the SEQRA process "expedited". 'Nuff said.
ReplyDelete7:59
ReplyDeleteThe difference is James Quigley as opposed to Nick Woerner, Yes I agree Al Spada's interest in the Millen's Project would have concerned me under the Woerner administration as well, after all did'nt he contribute heavily to the Friends of Nick Woerner Campaign fund and others that represented Woerner. Check the records though, Quigley never accepted money from Spada, and I believe he will stand on principle and let the legitimate process move forward. I feel confident that the likes of Al Spada have little if any influence over credible and ethical officials which is why the Town is better today than the last 4 years.
11:05 - agreed. Thank goodness Quigley is there and not Woerner. Quigley, unlike his predecessor, has integrity and scruples (how can he last in politics?). I am sure Quigley will do the right thing for the town and not his and his friends' pocket(s). Let's just hope that, in desperation to close the budget gap created by Woerner, the current town board doesn't say "yes" to every developer that comes along. Ulster, like anything else, needs WELL planned development (as aptly pointed out by 8:31). The board should abide by the comprehensive plan adopted a couple of years ago. If they're not careful, Ulster will look like New Jersey...how depressing!
ReplyDelete11:05
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine, agreement in the public arena.
Quigley will never be re-elected as he will piss off all the Special Interests who will unite to kick his ass.
ReplyDeleteNickey B. Woerner in 2011!!!!!!
hey 6:25, which special interest groups are you talking about? The senior citizens (and everyone else) who are all pissed at the colossal waste of money of the senior center? $650,000 was spent on that piece of crap. And if Nick had stayed in, they would've been soaked for hundreds of thousands more on Rocky's gym. People aren't going to forget Nicky B's 20+% tax increase anytime soon. They're not going to forget his arrogance and condescension. And they sure as hell aren't going to forget the favors he did for his cousin at the expense of everyone else. The only thing that Quigley could do that would prevent him from re-election is to hand the citizens a tax increase larger than what Nick gave them. There's no way Quigley could be lazier, ruder, and more arrogant than Nick.
ReplyDelete9:22
ReplyDeleteWell said, I am sure that Jim will return the Town to fiscal prosperity and get control of tax increases, I can only hope that He does so within the 2 year term as I would Like to see him run against the Mighty Heiny for County Exec. The Republican Lead Legislature can only do so much to rein in the Exec. we need a fiscally conservative County Exec to fight the unions and control spending at county level as well
On another note, the earlier comment regarding the school tax increase interests me. How can we get control of the school board"
So again I ask, why Quigley for a higher office when he has not done anything yet? Just because you "think" he will do well? Don't get me wrong, I like Jim and hope he does well too, but this is ridiculous. Since when does someone get promoted based on words and not actions?
ReplyDeleteGive Jim a chance to prove he can deliver, then we will discuss him running for higher office. Doesn't that sound much more reasonable?
I hope Quigley is as diligent with Millen's as he appears to be with Chambers II. Something tells me he will be now that it has been disclosed that Al Spada is involved. At least that is why we elected him.
ReplyDelete5:13
ReplyDeleteAs I said, if he does the job he was elected to do. if he can rein in town budgets and inspire intelligent development in 2 years, ( I think he Can), then I hope he runs for county exec. there isn't that big a pool of true 'public servants' in the local pond, career politicians have screwed up the state and county, which is why I like Jim for the job, he is a businessman and I'm sure the shortcomings of political life will wear him out after just a few years.
Lets get going before he catches on!
NBW left him with millions in debt to address. Expenses underbudgeted for, revenues overstated. He will be and the Town will be lucky for next year's tax increase to be less than 20%. Quigley is done, swept away by Woerner's legacy.
ReplyDeleteAs ugly as Ulster Town hall is from the outside, it is even uglier from the inside. Some of the shining stars of Ulster are pretty dim when you get up close. Jim is finding that out right about now. Good luck!
ReplyDelete9:27 - I hope you're wrong. If Quigley can cut expenses, then maybe he has a chance. I haven't heard (or read) anything that he's done in that regard so far. Layoffs or reduction in programs are probably necessary. And he may need to play hardball when it comes to contract negotiations. Sadly, if he's not successful in any of these endeavors, you're right. It would be a shame if he gets blamed for NBWs fiscal mismanagement. But if he does nothing about fixing it, he may deserve what he gets.
ReplyDeleteI just heard Quigley knuckled under to Aaron with the CO? I thought he was going to stick up for the taxpayers. What is going on there? Is Quigley getting pressure from Wadnola? Wadnola is the guy who first brought Aaron and Spada to town anyway.
ReplyDeleteI thought Quigley would be above that.
Interesting that no one here mentions that the Rondout has been polluted for over 175 years, as an industrial site. Back in the early 19th century, there was no criteria for starting a business and certainly no laws in effect to protect the environment. It simply is not fair to blame contamination of the Rondout on one business that has been there for less than 60 years. Millens Recycling has spent a large amount of money cleaning up contamination on its site and I believe they will be vigilant in protecting their new site from contamination. They have been a successful business in Kingston for many years and have contributed to the tax base for all of those years. Consider yourselves lucky in the town of Ulster, in these hard times, that they want to start up another successful, tax generating business in your town. And read local history! You'll be amazed at what you can learn!
ReplyDelete